Tuesday, February 14, 2012

Bishops' statement on the Ramsgate Sale

Monstrance
There is a statement on Bishop's website: Church Treasures Saved on the Ramsgate sale.

14 comments:

nickbris said...

They had to go through all this rigmarole to get the urgently needed funds.

It would be no surprise to find out that they have been begging and praying for this outcome for years.

Nicolas Bellord said...

Well it would be interesting to know what has been saved and whether there were important items that were not saved. The fact that one benefactor was able to buy a chalice for Father Ray suggests to me that there were still other similar items that have gone astray. Still we must thank the Abbot of Farnborough and the Diocese for stepping in. The auctioneers behaved correctly.

Dilly said...

I think I may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here. There was me, thinking that lawyers, priests and outraged Catholic layman had to threaten all sorts of things to get the lots withdrawn from sale. Having read the Bishops' website I now understand it was a wonderful planned co-operation by far-sighted personages in the Archdiocese and Abbey. I'm glad that's cleared up. I will sleep much easier.

Lawyeratwork.com said...

Oh dear - more evidence to the file.

Your Lordship did not consult a lawyer before making this public statement - that is obvious.

Transparency is vital now.

Every item put into the sale needs now to be checked for identity and legal ownership.


Every item withdrawn from the sale needs to be checked for same status and legal ownership.

How you can validly deconsecrate a Chalice once it has held The Precious Blood is beyond me.

Since now His Lordship has made this statement and admitted knowledge of several issues, I think that Rome has to be informed because items have been sold - which are precious to the Catholic Faith and also are highly valuable.

It was not a successful sale and happy ending as suggested by His Lordship's statement.

It was highly embarressing and a terrible decision was made by both senior priests.

Lawyeratwork.com

Lawyeratwork.com said...

My apologies:

Correction on Ordinary's Status of Southwark

His Grace: The Archbishop Peter Smith, not as I referred to His Lordship Peter Smith.

Lawyeratwork.com

georgem said...

The friary at Chilworth seems an awfully big place for just 11 monks. One wonders why they didn't downsize properly.
The statement reads like the Archbishop was late on the scene and was given a "plausible" explanation by the abbot.
I just hope the Franciscans took all their plate with them.

Bernadette said...

The Franciscans were so delighted that the Benedictines were taking over their property that they left the premises fully furnished, including a deep freezer full of food. The chapel and its sacristy were left intact, hence contributing to the problem of owning a superfluity of church oplate.

J. Moss said...

I am absolutely astonished to find out that the Arbp of Southwark, Peter Smith read law in the 1960's (before becoming a priest in the catholic church) and then became a canon lawyer.

After reading his statement, I think the whole matter is disgraceful and has brought the church into huge embarrassment.

I am a catholic lawyer.
J. Moss
Barrister at Law

georgem said...

It must be catching.

"Farnborough Abbey
Stations of the Cross
By Frank Brangwyn RA

"14 (complete set) Hand-tinted lithographs. Presented to Farnborough Abbey by the artist in the 1950s. In oak frames.
G K Chesterton wrote a book of meditation on these Brangwyn images."

£1900+VAT

www.churchantiques.com

Fr Ray Blake said...

I have seen a folio of these, not the Farnborough set, in a gallery somewhere, for quite a bit more.

The sale of a set of lithographs, or books for that matter, except for rare or historic ones, doesn't excite or horrify me as much as things given for the altar.

PollyoblateOSB said...

I would like to thank His Grace for his positive and Fatherly response to this ridiculous outburst, where some so called Catholics seem to think its honorable, to slag off one section of our Holy Church...because of a dead mans precious metal gifts to 'whoever', as an expression of his love, at that time, to the very same Faith we hold dear, today. I wonder what Pugin would have thought about all this ! Sure, he would be honored that a Priest would think his objects 'good enough',that the Church he built was 'good enough' to be used at all..but for what..this back-biting..like dogs after bones!!A Gift is a Gift..end of. I'm one of the Oblates of the Community at Chilworth and I would like to say, to all of you, that they are the Most Sound and Faithful of all monks. Their Doctrine is Sound..unlike some, and the Sacrifice they make, every day of their lives, is relentless. Without them there would Be No Eucharist..What is more important to you, the Altar or the Sacrifice on it. Monks and Priests, are held in their position, by the Grace of God...for Gods own reasons. I would prefer a SOUND Priest from Chilworth Any-day,and it wouldnt matter to me in What Vessel Jesus offered Himself to me in..I would thank Him for even wanting to come to me at all. PAX

George said...

Pollyoblate,
Let us be frank, these monks tried selling things that did not belong to them, there is word to describe that, but actually people on all the posts on this subject have been too gracious to use it!

It is as Father Blake has said continually, a matter of trust; hence the Church and civil society has very strict laws but the use of things donated for a particular purpose. The outrage here and in the press is about a breach of trust, contempt for it.

It is also about honouring those things which previous generations considered holy, they are still holy for us today (to paraphrase Pope Bxvi). Again the concern is that these monks have lost a sense of holiness and reverence, very problematic when speaking of monks, as most of the Fathers would see those things as the basis of the Spiritual Life.

Edward P. Walton said...

The Benedictine nuns of Dunkirk who lived at St. Scholastica's Abbey, sold the chapel with the main altar still in place.Apparently the side altars were also left in place. The present owners seem to be using the chapel as a living area.

Pictures of the Abbey with chapel were recently advertised in a Perod Home type magazine. The Abbey is in Teingnmouth, Devon. The place is up for sale the second time, with Wilkinsongart.

Edward P. Walton said...

A view of the Abbey chapel is in the February issue of PERIOD LIVING.