Wednesday, November 07, 2007

Musical Problem


On the 18th of November, we have some Guildhall School of Music students to sing our 5pm Mass here, under the direction of Maestro Emanuele Moris, who teaches at there, coaches soloist at Covent Garden, they are doing:


"In manus tuas Domine" by Cesare Tudini (1577) for 4 voices

"Kyrie" by Francesco Gasparini (1725) 4 voices

"Benedictus" by Palestrina from the mass "L'homme arme'", 4 voices

"Qui sedes ad dexteram" from Gloria by Vivaldi countertenor solo




Most of these pieces I don't think I know. The Mass will be in the "Ordinary Form", but I am not sure quite where to fit them.

Any ideas?

What about a short Gloria?

8 comments:

JARay said...

I see your problem Father.
Off the top of my head I can only think that:-
The Kyrie belongs at the the begining because it is "Lord have mercy"
In manus tuas comes, not from Mass, but from Compline, and I can only think that it should come at the end of Mass as a kind of dismissal.
Perhaps, the Benedictus could come after the Consecration. At one time we did split the Sanctus and the Benedictus when singing them.
As for the solo, well that belongs early on, perhaps where one has the bidding prayers.
A Gloria?
I'm not sure what you mean by a short Gloria. How about the traditional plainsong Gloria from the Missa de Angelis?

That's the best that I can think of.
Hope that this is of some help.

JARay

Fr Ray Blake said...

Short Gloria: I mean something like the Gloria from the Haydn, St Nicholas Mass, that is a bit late compared to the other pieces.
This is an "occassional" event, my parishioners might find listening to something that went on for too long a bit difficult.

Physiocrat said...

I was about to comment but what John says is quite logical.

As long as what is being offered is of reasonable quality people will listen. If the Mass ends at about its usual time there should not be a problem, people may have to catch buses and that kind of thing, that is what can make people edgy if they think they are going to get home much later than planned.

Sadly I will not be able to attend.

Mike Forbester said...

My thoughts - for what they're worth...

The Kyrie in its usual place. The Vivaldi to be sung during the Offertory, Benedictus either after the Consecration or as a Communion motet leaving In manus tuas to be sung at the end.

As for a Gloria, how about Byrd. Both the Glorias from his masses for 3 & 4 voices are relatively short.

JARay said...

Father,
Following Mike4b's suggestion of Byrd for the Gloria, I decided to do a Google and I came across this:-
http://www.tvjrdean.f9.co.uk/music/choral/learn%20part.htm
I hope that I've copied that lot down correctly!
When you click on that you get a list of music which is on an Adobe pdf file.
You can then click on the item you want, which is Byrd's Gloria. This brings up the whole thing and is 15 pages long and ready to print out.
Going back, against your choice you can see the four parts. When you click on either Soprano or alto etc you get a Media player come up and it goes through the whole of that part so that you can learn it. The sound has a muted, but clear accompanyment and for any individual wanting to learn their part it is simply marvellous.
That said, you can listen to it for yourself and decide if this Gloria by William Byrd is right for this occasion.
I think that it is, but you can choose something else from the list if you wish. It is a great resource.
Do try it.

JARay

JARay said...

Looking at the print out of what I posted the last little bit has been truncated.
The letters:-
"rt.htm" have been cut off.
ie.
/learn%20part.htm
is the ending of that web-site.

JARay

Anonymous said...

Surely the suggestion that anything shold be sung during the eucharistic prayer is an unhelpful one? Does if not violate the integrity of the prayer? Is the Prayer not a single unity? Would it not be rather, ahem, Protesatant, to tinker with the heart of the liturgy in such a way? Utterly ridiculous suggestion. Far better to have the Benedictus at the end, following the dismissal.

Fr Ray Blake said...

Anon.
Interesting you raise this, it is certainly not Protestant, it used to be the custom to say the Canon of the Mass immediately after the Sacred Ministers had said the Sanctus regardless of what the choir was singing, the priest would then wait for them to finish before continuing with the Consecration, the Benedictus would follow, with the prayer being said in the same manner as before.

The GIRM would certainly now indicate that there was silence during the entire Eucharistic Prayer. The Pope in Spirit of the Liturgy seems to suggest a return to the previous practice.
The last time we used the Coronation Mass, and we had a Bishop celebrating he said that rather than waiting for the Sanctus and Benedictus to be sung that we should have said the Eucharistic Prayer whilst the choir sang.
I might put up a post about this.

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